Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

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Visstar
Posts: 396
Location: Loch Caetar

Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by Visstar » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:20 pm

So on day 186, after many wearying fights and more than a few brushes with death, my team did it! They made it through Inferno and defeated Maruziel. There are a few thoughts on the victory, the path to getting there, and the aftermath. (Edit: Knowing a few tricks helps, as on my last play through, I defeated Maruziel on day 701)

1. The hardest part of the game was the lava field. I actually gave up and abandoned the game for several weeks partway through. You can do it with a bit of luck, lots of spell points for restoration, and not taking a character with fewer than 200 HP. More would be better, but there's no way I would slog through enough battles to get a thief up to 300 HP! Here's the worst part: there is a bug that processes heat damage too often. You step into some lava and take 100 HP damage. You stop to do some healing, and the act of healing triggers another round of heat damage. Since my thief only had 190 HP, it was mathematically impossible for her to walk through. I had to let her die and be resurrected after we passed through the lava.

2. Maruziel was helpless. I meant it when I said the lava field was the toughest part of the game. It was kind of anticlimactic killing him, it was so easy.
Spoiler
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Hesitation gets processed first and paralyzes all opponents, even Maruziel. Then just bash at him with the Silversword, etc., till he dies. It will take a while, as he has over 10,000 HP! However, the outcome of this fight is never in doubt.
I don't know if this is a big secret, but I made it a spoiler just in case. The spell I referenced is costly, but easily the most powerful one there is. (It's also very useful against compost and the coastal walkers on the Flooded Isle, which almost ate my party for lunch in the victory tour.) In my humble opinion, it is too powerful, just as Shatter Walls is completely worthless.

(Edit: the spell has been fixed to give monsters a saving throw. Now, the only monsters you really need it against are unaffected by it, so it has gone from godlike to more or less useless.)

3. Lovely victory party at the end. I really enjoyed the little celebratory screen upon winning. It's too bad there is no way to replay it. Then there's a chest, and you get .... nothing but a pat on the back and a teleport to Savage Crossing.

4. Wizardz was wrong about monks! A monk with knuckledusters will deal out 1500-3500 HP per attack and even more important, will ...
Spoiler
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...keep attacking until he fails to kill something. I'm not sure when this new ability was gained; I did not notice it until Inferno, when he was level 26. In the final battle, I used Hesitation and Close Combat to pull 20 Demon Lords and then 20 high priestesses into melee range, and the monk killed all 20 of each in one combat round each. (See attached.)
You definitely want a monk in your party, despite the low hit points! He is easily the best fighter in my party, despite the Silversword and the Stone Blade. By the way, up to that point, my thief was my best non-magical character. Her superb archery combined with the dragon bone bow made her deadly. She killed about 75% of the things she shot at, including the hideous demons in Inferno.

(Edit: the monk has been tweaked, as discussed below.)

5. Evil isn't gone. Despite your victory, evil still rules most of the land. DO NOT GO BACK TO ROOM 6/66 in the sewers. Despite the death of Maruziel, there is evil there much more powerful than he was. You can't even fight; you just die. Also, Annsharbour is still infested with Astralyte, which is pretty disappointing. There's no way to stop it that I can find. I assume it's part of the expansion.

6. There are some subtle changes. For instance, the orcs guarding the city are gone (both inside and out) and you can explore the Coast Lands and the Flooded Isle. In the Coast Lands you will find a little shop that will teach you Summon Items (a very useful spell) and a smuggler who will take you to the Flooded Isle, where you will meet some exceptionally tough monsters that are worth A LOT of XP! Hint: do NOT take compost lightly. Their attacks are nasty, including aging and insanity, and seem to hit no matter what your armor class is.

Bug alert: the spell you learn in the Coast Lands is supposed to be a 5th level Conjuror spell, but is in fact a 5th level Archmage spell. It took me a bit of scrolling to find the thing to try it out. It's very useful, allowing to to fetch whatever you want from your bank inventory. No more carrying healing potions around!

Feature request: A spell to send items to your bank inventory would be an awfully nice complement to Summon Items!

Bug alert: The Flooded Isles also do not appear on the overview map! Also, why is the voyage there animated, while the one to Paradosa is not? Neither quibble really affects game play, just kind of odd.

7. Some things that should have changed, don't. A lot of things that should change after the death of Maruziel (or earlier!) never do. Here are a couple of examples:
  • No matter how many times you kill him, there's always a Vampire in the "Should not investigate" house in the market district.
  • There are still locked doors that cannot be opened in the harbour district.
  • The inhabitants of Artonsa still won't leave their houses, even after you kill the Vampire Lord in the castle.
  • There's still a lot of empty space in the temple district, and the temple where you get one of the shards is again inaccessible ("You dare not enter.")
  • At Savage Crossing, the soldier in the house near the bank still tells you the road east is blocked and to go see Gwyddon. Huh? Shouldn't he say something relevant now, like "Maruziel is dead, but there's still a lot to be done"?
Other notes:

Speaking of Savage Crossing, there is A LOT of dead/unused space on the map. Is this an oversight, something deliberate to drive us crazy, or did I miss something extremely subtle the many times I tried to map it?

Finally, Inferno (aside from the lava field) was a masterpiece! Beautifully creepy, otherworldly appearance, and a tricky maze. However, I expected the Dark Tower to be a ... tower. It was just a teleport to the lava. Also, as I have mentioned before, the maps need to be clearer. The map of the lava field is pretty useless. It's impossible to see the walls on the red background. This is true in several other parts of the game as well. And I'm not sure, but I think I like the way Inferno does not appear on the overview ("All") map. It's not really part of the physical plane (I guess) and you can only get there by teleport. So I kind of like it.

Thanks, Mario!

Screenshot of a monk in the process of killing 20 Greater Demons in one go:
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Last edited by Visstar on Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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icetear
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Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by icetear » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:47 pm

Congratulations on finishing the evil one :-)

Yes, I admit, there are some things that have been left out for lack of love & time.
The surroundings should change once you defeat Maruziel.

The multiple attack skill was introduced just a few weeks ago, because many players wanted the monk to be more powerful. I hope it is not too overkill now ;-)

The spell in the coastal lands is tied to your actual character class, I had to do it this way - poor programming *shame*. So it might be a conjurer spell for one player, and an archmage spell for the other. Glad you've found it anyway.

Once you have the dragon sight spell from the expansion, you can get an overview of a map. And you will see that there is indeed a lot of unused space - don't worry, I think you have not missed any important part.

Thank you for playing :-)

kind regards
Mario
Silversword - the CRPG for iPhone+iPad now on the AppStore!
Please visit us on http://www.silversword-rpg.com
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Visstar
Posts: 396
Location: Loch Caetar

Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by Visstar » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:11 pm

icetear wrote:The spell in the coastal lands is tied to your actual character class, I had to do it this way - poor programming *shame*. So it might be a conjurer spell for one player, and an archmage spell for the other. Glad you've found it anyway.
No problem! A rather small quibble in such a large, complex, and excellent game!

BTW a simple fix would be to just give the name of the spell and not mention its level or class. ;)

On to the expansion!
May the Vishanti guide me through this eldritch maze!

wizardz
Posts: 363

Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by wizardz » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:16 pm

Hmmm...as of 2.59 monks seem second class again. Yes with knuckle dusters they deal a lot of damage but only at one monster per round.

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Visstar
Posts: 396
Location: Loch Caetar

Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by Visstar » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:27 pm

wizardz wrote:Hmmm...as of 2.59 monks seem second class again. Yes with knuckle dusters they deal a lot of damage but only at one monster per round.
Uh oh, I'd better turn off background app updating! I'm at 2.58 and like my super monk. 8-)
May the Vishanti guide me through this eldritch maze!

wizardz
Posts: 363

Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by wizardz » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:33 pm

Yes, it was really disappointing to lose that ability...

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icetear
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Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by icetear » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:12 pm

it's being reviewed and will come back soon (with 2.6.0).

kind regards
Mario
Silversword - the CRPG for iPhone+iPad now on the AppStore!
Please visit us on http://www.silversword-rpg.com
iTunes Link: http://itunes.com/apps/silversword

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Visstar
Posts: 396
Location: Loch Caetar

Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by Visstar » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:49 pm

I don't know if this helps or complicates things, but I'm in the Tarasz Passage in v. 2.5.9 and my monk occasionally does attack more than once. It used to be automatic after she killed something, and now there's about a 10-15% chance she will.

icetear wrote:it's being reviewed and will come back soon (with 2.6.0).

kind regards
Mario
May the Vishanti guide me through this eldritch maze!

User avatar
Visstar
Posts: 396
Location: Loch Caetar

Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by Visstar » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:32 pm

Yes! The super monk is back! :D

But now I feel a little guilty, having read how much thought Mario put into maintaining the balance of the game and thinking the super monk was too powerful.

Is the monk in 2.6.0 the same as in 2.5.8, or did you maintain some limits on their power (e.g. X attacks or X% chance of another attack per level)?

Thanks Mario.
May the Vishanti guide me through this eldritch maze!

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icetear
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Posts: 1382

Re: Notes and thoughts upon vanquishing evil

Post by icetear » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:12 pm

This one would do well in the compendium ;-)

My notes from the testing round:

Monks now get the "Chain Attack" skill.
Existing monks will get the skill upon starting/loading the game via an internal update script. The skill value is (monk level * 4 - 2). The skill (like every other skill) is capped at 99.

How it works:

Upon each attack, a skill roll is made. When successful, the Monk will look for another enemy (only in the same enemy group as the one that has been killed).

a skill roll checks...

IF
Random(100) + Skill-Level + Monk-Level - Map-Level*10
IS GREATER OR EQUAL THAN
50

Examples:
----
MAP LEVEL 1 (Beginner's Maps)
----
for the first map (map-level 1) with a fresh monk (Chain Attack 2) this means, that the skill roll will be:
Random(100) + 2 + 1 - 10 -> -6 to 93, will fire roughly about 43%

for the first map (map-level 1) with a level 3 monk (Chain Attack 2+4+4=10) this means, that the skill roll will be:
Random(100) + 10 + 3 - 10 -> 4 to 104, will fire roughly about 54%

for the first map (map-level 1) with a level 6 monk (Chain Attack 2+4+4+4+4+4=22) this means, that the skill roll will be:
Random(100) + 22 + 6 - 10 -> 19 to 119, will fire roughly about 69%

for the first map (map-level 1) with a level 26 monk (Chain Attack 99) this means, that the skill roll will be:
Random(100) + 99 + 26 - 10 -> 116 to 216, will fire always

for the first map (map-level 1) with a level 12 monk (Chain Attack 46) this means, that the skill roll will be:
Random(100) + 46 + 12 - 10 -> 49 to 149, will fire almost always

----
MAP LEVEL 10 (Maruziel, Realm of Dragons)
----
on map level 10 with a monk level 25 (Chain Attack 98) this means, that the skill roll will be:
Random(100) + 98 + 25 - 100 -> 24 to 124, will fire roughly about 74%


Conclusion: I think this is a good approach. Let's test it.
Silversword - the CRPG for iPhone+iPad now on the AppStore!
Please visit us on http://www.silversword-rpg.com
iTunes Link: http://itunes.com/apps/silversword

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